Updates for sit and go

General discussion of PokerTracker 3.

Moderator: Moderators

Updates for sit and go

Postby Smoky » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:43 pm

I read thomas42's post with great interest. I must agree with him that all the emphasis on PT3 seems to be on cash games. Why is this so?

I don't have nearly as many requests as Thomas does, but I feel his pain. Why not at least start with some very simple ones and gradually increase them as time goes by. At least that would give us SNG players a sense of progress.


An example might be at least to implement the auto rate system for tournament games. If that programming is available for cash games, I would think it could be easily implemented for SNG. I have only waited 2 years for this but never got even a decent explanation why it is withheld. The only explanation I ever got was along the lines that you never see the same player twice, so what is the use. This tells me the programmers don't play SNGs but only cash games. SNG games you meet the same players over and over and accumulate tens of thousands of hands on them. Not talking big tourneys here, just the simple single table 9 seat SNG which happens to be the fastest growing online game.

When I explained this more than a year ago, the forum moderator reluctantly agreed with me and suggested I would at least see this in a matter of time.

I agree with Thomas42 that even without enhancements on the tournament side the program is well worth the money. But I also suspect you are missing a big market by not paying more attention to needs on the tournament side. Wish others like Thomas and I would speak up and be heard.

Thanks for any attention you can give.
Smoky
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:56 am

Re: Updates for sit and go

Postby WhiteRider » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:22 pm

There will be some major tournament updates in the next beta release.
It won't include auto rate for tournaments, though. As I understand it, the reason for this isn't that you don't see players again (which obviously you do) but that people's play varies much more in different situations within tournaments than it does in cash games as they are generally a similar situation all the time, so having a single picture of how someone plays isn't so useful.
Primarily the updates are to do with auto detecting tournament types and results as far as possible.
WhiteRider
Moderator
 
Posts: 53961
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:06 pm
Location: UK

Re: Updates for sit and go

Postby zubs1aa » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:20 am

OP- I've posted more posts than the devs would like to see on this subject (as one of the testers- you can't see the tester forum though...) that I feel that MTT/SNG support is seriously lacking in many areas. (Not to say it is non-functional by any means, but that it also lacks many features.)

Further agreed that this is probably due to the lack of exposure to that grind....

A lot of HUD stats are not available obviously as stated by others etc..etc etc. as well as graphs and more. All missing. Or the ability to show only HUD stats on villain (or self) for the current tourney or table. We all could go on and on. Get more of your fellow SNG people to post and maybe we'll get things moved up the priority list...

WR - in defense of OP, if people are grinding 9, 18, 27 and 45 mans, they will very frequently run into the same players. And while people do play differently at different stages of teh game, I think it is fair to say that one could auto-rate these players effectively and usefully. (Certainly if you used pre/post ante or stats only from when there were 8 or 9 players at the table.)

MTT's this would probably not be as useful for, sure, but for someone on the 30-table grind on stars or FTP? Definitely
zubs1aa
 
Posts: 2219
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Updates for sit and go

Postby WhiteRider » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:32 am

zubs1aa wrote:WR - in defense of OP, if people are grinding 9, 18, 27 and 45 mans, they will very frequently run into the same players. And while people do play differently at different stages of teh game, I think it is fair to say that one could auto-rate these players effectively and usefully. (Certainly if you used pre/post ante or stats only from when there were 8 or 9 players at the table.)

I agree - I'm not arguing with that point.

WhiteRider wrote:There will be some major tournament updates in the next beta release.
It won't include auto rate for tournaments, though. As I understand it, the reason for this isn't that you don't see players again (which obviously you do) but that people's play varies much more in different situations within tournaments than it does in cash games as they are generally a similar situation all the time, so having a single picture of how someone plays isn't so useful.
Primarily the updates are to do with auto detecting tournament types and results as far as possible.
WhiteRider
Moderator
 
Posts: 53961
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:06 pm
Location: UK

Re: Updates for sit and go

Postby zubs1aa » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:48 pm

WhiteRider wrote:
zubs1aa wrote:WR - in defense of OP, if people are grinding 9, 18, 27 and 45 mans, they will very frequently run into the same players. And while people do play differently at different stages of teh game, I think it is fair to say that one could auto-rate these players effectively and usefully. (Certainly if you used pre/post ante or stats only from when there were 8 or 9 players at the table.)

I agree - I'm not arguing with that point.

WhiteRider wrote:There will be some major tournament updates in the next beta release.
It won't include auto rate for tournaments, though. As I understand it, the reason for this isn't that you don't see players again (which obviously you do) but that people's play varies much more in different situations within tournaments than it does in cash games as they are generally a similar situation all the time, so having a single picture of how someone plays isn't so useful.
Primarily the updates are to do with auto detecting tournament types and results as far as possible.


Right- and I was arguing the second point. Obviously I can't argue that it's not in the update lol. But the "people's play varies so much"...so having a single picture isn't so useful" is the part I would refute. I don't think this is accurate at all for the 9 and 18 mans for sure, probably 27's+ as well, especially on stars turbos. There isn't much room to play different ways at different points... and if there are significantly different segments of the game that could d be broken out ... I still think there is a way to auto-rate these folks.

But again, you'd need the SNG guys to be able to help define the best way to go about this.

SNG play is incredibly formulaic, especially as by the 15-20 multi-tabling types.
zubs1aa
 
Posts: 2219
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Updates for sit and go

Postby WhiteRider » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:05 pm

As you know I'm not in charge of what does and doesn't get added, or why, but that is the reason auto rate wasn't added for tournaments. I'm not saying it never will be - we pass on the weight of feeling to the devs about things like this.
WhiteRider
Moderator
 
Posts: 53961
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:06 pm
Location: UK

Re: Updates for sit and go

Postby zubs1aa » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:18 pm

WhiteRider wrote:As you know I'm not in charge of what does and doesn't get added, or why, but that is the reason auto rate wasn't added for tournaments. I'm not saying it never will be - we pass on the weight of feeling to the devs about things like this.


I get that. What I'm saying is that as regards SNG, the rationale is fundamentally wrong and the Devs need to understand that. (There are many things the devs mis-think about how certain tourney/SNG functions are not useful or not applicable because they don't understand the games well enough, or over-think the problem) All I am doing here is saying that the previous poster got it right - and hoping you make sure the devs see the commentary.

As to the weight of feeling for this feature, I won't speak to it's relative importance as it's not my game of choice, though the idea has merit. IF the master list of all tourney/SNG related *gameplay/player/HUD stats* features that SHOULD be added/fixed was compiled, I'm just saying I couldn't give it a relative weight at the moment... since it's not my main game to play.
zubs1aa
 
Posts: 2219
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Updates for sit and go

Postby zubs1aa » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:29 pm

This guy summed up perfectly in this thread: http://www.pokertracker.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=20118&start=0

PJs Ronin wrote:OP's post is spot on the money. The difference between cash and tourney play is like night and day and at the risk of upsetting a bunch of people, it takes a lot less poker savvy and computer coding to accommodate cash play. This is nowhere more apparent than in the HUD where PT3 and HEM present data that is 100% accurate and just as misleading. PT3's saving grace is that post tourney analysis is at least useful....(snipped)


ANd OP in that thread has MANY points I agree with. It's not the end all and be all list for tourny stuff, but he is right on target...


Thomas42 wrote:Ever since I bought PokerTracker2 back in October 2004 I have loved it. It is an fantastic tool to use both when playing, keeping statistics and analysing both my own and others play.

A great tool can of course always be improved and for years I, and many others, have requested new features for tournaments. Improvements for tournament statistics have been promised for as long as I have used PT, but unfortunately I can't say that I have seen any really useful once added yet. Focus seems to be almost exclusively on cash games, which I play very little compared to especially SnGs.

I have now waited patiently for almost 5 years to see any of all feature requests for tournaments materialise in PT. My patience is now reaching the limit and I am tired of waiting any more.


He's right. It's been a long wait and the complicated/more important stuff has NOT been touched. As you guys continue your work the DEVS need to realize what people want. While the tourney type data stratification will be "nice" it won't help me make any more money.

What will help me make more money are the tourney specific HUD and game-play items that are frankly, completely missing or require massive amounts of user coding to attempt to get to. This guy laid much of it out nicely, so now you know I am not the ONLY one making these exact complaints, which I know I've posted at length in the alpha forums.
zubs1aa
 
Posts: 2219
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Updates for sit and go

Postby WhiteRider » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:42 pm

I'll certainly pass on your comments to the devs.
WhiteRider
Moderator
 
Posts: 53961
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:06 pm
Location: UK

Re: Updates for sit and go

Postby zubs1aa » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:45 pm

WhiteRider wrote:I'll certainly pass on your comments to the devs.


THx. X-posted this to alpha board anyway lol :mrgreen:
zubs1aa
 
Posts: 2219
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:52 pm


Return to General [Read Only]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests

cron