Display All-in EV never worsk for PT3??

[zubs1aa]

You didn't give enough information in order to make those sorts of calculations - we'd need to know how many all-ins you were involved in, and the size of all of the various pots. The really short answer though is that variance can easily be a lot bigger than you'd expect. I know it's more for cash games but playing with this simulator can really open your eyes.

arg. i was pointing out that the allin EV graph does NOT even in the legend tell you how many allins were involved. It would be a nice feature enhancement.

[kraada]

Ah, so it would.

I'll make a note of that so we can look into adding it for the future.

[DonkeyKong]

EV for whole tournaments is significantly more complicated than for individual hands, but it is something we are working on.

Seriously?? I have PT3 for 3 years now, and there is still no improvement?! holdem manager has it function pretty well already in less than a year. What's going on...

[kraada]

We have some big improvements coming over the next couple of months. Stay tuned and you won't be disappointed.

[PJs Ronin]

EV for whole tournaments is significantly more complicated than for individual hands, but it is something we are working on.

Seriously?? I have PT3 for 3 years now, and there is still no improvement?! holdem manager has it function pretty well already in less than a year. What's going on...

I'll say this again, the HM tournament EV calculation is ONLY performed on single table tournies. However, the EV line displays for ALL tournies.

However, I agree that considerable work is required by PT3 (and HM for that matter) to sort out tourny all-in EV. For instance, PT3 has (at the moment) no idea how to handle multi-way all-in pots. You're gonna see one severely pissed off customer if the "you're gonna love it" update for 24 May doesn't resolve this.

Ninja Edit: Btw, I don't believe tourney EV calcs have real value. Chip all-in EV is the way to go imo.

[kraada]

Certain multi-way pots won't be calculated and that is for philosophical reasons. See this post for the gory details.

[PJs Ronin]

Certain multi-way pots won't be calculated and that is for philosophical reasons. See this post for the gory details.

Kraada, I don't want this thread to assume biblical proportions, but I think the link you provided is the very reason why tourney players feel left out of the picture on this. Your 2+2 post is logical and well written, but imo does not relate to tourney play in the slightest. Tourney all-in decisions are made in an 'instant of time' and that's the end of it. It doesn't matter in the slightest if players can continue post flop and get 2 pair, a set, a boat or a partridge in a pear tree. All the tourney player wants to know is "was I ahead when I pulled the trigger" and "did I read him right when I called his shove". Whatever Pascal does with the math after that is not relevant.

[zubs1aa]

Certain multi-way pots won't be calculated and that is for philosophical reasons. See this post for the gory details.

Kraada, I don't want this thread to assume biblical proportions, but I think the link you provided is the very reason why tourney players feel left out of the picture on this. Your 2+2 post is logical and well written, but imo does not relate to tourney play in the slightest. Tourney all-in decisions are made in an 'instant of time' and that's the end of it. It doesn't matter in the slightest if players can continue post flop and get 2 pair, a set, a boat or a partridge in a pear tree. All the tourney player wants to know is "was I ahead when I pulled the trigger" and "did I read him right when I called his shove". Whatever Pascal does with the math after that is not relevant.

you read his post wrong.

he is correct about how one calcs allin EV if someone folds post allin and you don't know their hole cards. you can't.

if you shove and 2 guys flat, but one gets bet out of it on teh turn, then it's not possible to calc for you. And that is the odd case they are ignoring.

This tourny player thinks that exception is OK. do you really want to know what it is vs the player that stayed in after betting the other guy out?

[PJs Ronin]

he is correct about how one calcs allin EV if someone folds post allin and you don't know their hole cards. you can't.

If you see NO holecards then I agree with this statement.

if you shove and 2 guys flat, but one gets bet out of it on teh turn, then it's not possible to calc for you. And that is the odd case they are ignoring.

Why ignore this? The calc can still be done against hero and the remaining villain and is still relevant imo.

This tourny player thinks that exception is OK. do you really want to know what it is vs the player that stayed in after betting the other guy out?

Hell yeah... whatever happens to the other players has no bearing on hero's initial decision.

I have a feeling that this 'grey area' about tourney all-in EV is one reason why EV reports sometimes show a 'blank' result for the EV calc. I think PT3 is trying to exclude data that should not be excluded.

The only time I see an EV calc not being relevant is when one of the players is blinded all-in. Other instances (say, ultra low stack) can be filtered out as required.

my 2c worth, but I really would like this opened for broader discussion.

[zubs1aa]

this is so infrequent so as not to even warrant discussion IMO

how often does it really happen? a fraction of allins have this happening. work on something else more useful to tny players. like single tny or single table stats in the hud...or i could go on and on.

This is a <1% minutia case