Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

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Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby js2002 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:24 am

Hi,

we got "Fold to Cbet in 3bet pot" and I want it positional.

I made "Cbet"

sum(if[holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_cbet AND holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position, 1, 0])

I guess this catches only the absolute IP cases! not were we are are in sandwich and in posi to the PFA. Would the PT3 build it my way or in anather way?

and

sum(if[holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_cbet AND NOT(holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position), 1, 0])

Maybe hers a BUG: sandwich gets counted. So at the new "Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP" stat this will make fault values. As u can imagine: for the cbet stats its ok, not for the new one! Ideas?


Is this ok?

If yes, I can use the holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position term for the "Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP" Stats aswell.
js2002
 
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Re: Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby kraada » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:31 am

You can check to see if you're in position on the last person to raise preflop by using this instead of flg_f_has_position:

holdem_hand_player_statistics.position < holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos

though this will not work in hands played that have only two players dealt into them. In those cases you would need to use:

(holdem_hand_player_statistics.position < holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos OR holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position)

(In heads up pots you are always either in or out of absolute as well as relative position.)
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Re: Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby js2002 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:03 pm

How u like this:


Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot IP
sum(if[
(holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players_f = 2
AND (holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_3bet_def_opp OR holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_4bet_def_opp) AND holdem_hand_player_statistics.enum_f_cbet_action)='F)
AND (holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos > holdem_hand_player_statistics.position OR holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position)

Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP

sum(if[
(holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players_f = 2
AND (holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_3bet_def_opp OR holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_4bet_def_opp) AND holdem_hand_player_statistics.enum_f_cbet_action)='F)
AND (holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos < holdem_hand_player_statistics.position)
AND NOT (holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position) <-- maybe obsolete here

1. Will these work correct (for blind vs blind and blind vs late etc) ?
2. How do I build this for "holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players_f > 2"
js2002
 
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Location: Germany

Re: Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby js2002 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:07 pm

I think both work when I use playerranges 3-10 at table hud.

So i can remove the "= 2" I will get multiway pots and the stat works right?
Just tested 50 cases but Im not sure.

What do u think?
js2002
 
Posts: 1494
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:44 am
Location: Germany

Re: Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby kraada » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:30 pm

holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players_f = 2 means that there were exactly two players at the flop - in that case there's no difference between absolute and relative position. Player ranges only take into account the number of players dealt into a hand, not the number reaching the flop. My comment was only about hands with two players dealt in - if you never play at those kinds of tables you don't need that extra piece (though it doesn't really hurt either).
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Re: Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby js2002 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:04 pm

How do I do the part u meant?
I tried @reports without the _f and then only HU dealt-in hands came.
So I cant use "holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players = 2" because then = only HU games :-(

Maybe I have to separate again with sum foobar ..>2 ...OR ...= 2 ?!
js2002
 
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Re: Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby kraada » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:11 pm

You don't need a 2 anywhere.

Consider this statement:
(holdem_hand_player_statistics.position < holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos OR holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position)

This is true when either: you have relative position when in a 3+ person hand (position < val_p_raise_aggressor_pos), or you have absolute position in the hand - which covers all of the two person cases. This will give you every time you are in relative position for certain - because we're checking for facing a cbet which means you already can't be the aggressor, and we know you either have absolute position (which implies relative position) or you have relative position. So you don't need to specify that it's a situation for heads up only hands it's irrelevant.
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Re: Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby js2002 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:18 pm

I see I see for IP play!

BUT: OOP is the problem: holdem_hand_player_statistics.position > holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos and NOT holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position cant be right.

because: dealt 3+ players: SB = PFA firstin and BB 3bets. BB = 8 SB = 9 so check fails.
BU = 0 CO = 1 will work (@4+ dealt spots)

So there I need a blind vds blinds ajustment and a 2-dealt ajustment u see?
js2002
 
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Location: Germany

Re: Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby kraada » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:42 pm

I don't see the problem there.

We're looking for OOP spots:

holdem_hand_player_statistics.position > holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos and NOT holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position

It's clear that if you're OOP "NOT(flg_f_has_position)" is always trivially true. So we can ignore that and concentrate on:


holdem_hand_player_statistics.position > holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos

If the SB raises and BB 3-bets and SB calls from the SB's point of view we have position = 9, val_p_raise_aggressor_pos = 8. 9 > 8. The check looks good to me. Am I missing something here?
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Re: Fold to Cbet in 3bet Pot OOP and IP

Postby js2002 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:51 pm

kraada wrote:I don't see the problem there.

We're looking for OOP spots:

holdem_hand_player_statistics.position > holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos and NOT holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position

It's clear that if you're OOP "NOT(flg_f_has_position)" is always trivially true. So we can ignore that and concentrate on:


holdem_hand_player_statistics.position > holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos

If the SB raises and BB 3-bets and SB calls from the SB's point of view we have position = 9, val_p_raise_aggressor_pos = 8. 9 > 8. The check looks good to me. Am I missing something here?




There is the fault thinking: If the SB raises and BB 3-bets and SB calls from the SB's point of view we have position = 9, val_p_raise_aggressor_pos = 8. posi < PFAposi ! -> 9 < 8 = false!
I think u see it wrong because I write holdem_hand_player_statistics.position to the left and holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos to the right.

Maybe we should use a term like "OR postion=9" so that these cases get true.

EDIT;
maybe:


(holdem_hand_player_statistics.position > holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos OR postion=9) AND NOT holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_has_position


OH I SEE It works as u said! hmmm, woundering why both work...let me think...

WOW I think this works even for HU dealt spots! can this be?
js2002
 
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