Changing the default positions

[mager]

Hey.
I'm moving to PT4, and while doing it i'm also moving to PostgreSQL v9.0.6.

I would like to change the default positions of PT(unless it's different than in PT3).
Normally, I would backup the DB PT3 and restore it in PT4. Since I would like to change the default positions, which require to update the cache, I think I should do it like this instead:
a. Export my hands
b. Uninstall PostgreSQL v8(including my DB), and install v9
c. Change the default positions
d. Install PT4 and import my hands

Is this the right why to do it? Also, if I would like to still use PT3 as well, using backup and restore and then update cache should make it work?

Lastly, I I found this thread which explains how to change the default positions:
https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/vie ... 15&t=34775
Is there a different way now or should I do it like that?

Thanks.

[WhiteRider]

PT4 uses a completely separate database so a new one will need to be created - you cannot use the same database directly or with backup/restore.
PT4 has a built-in function to convert your PT3 database.
Your PT3 database will not change, will remain separate, and can still be used by PT3.

If you want to move to 9.0.6 at the same time (good idea) you can just install it alongside your current version. Be sure to pick a different port during the installation and they can run together. (I'd recommend port 3290 for 9.0 as that's easy to remember)

PT4 has different position groups, with more detail. Specifically we now have exact cutoff, button, SB and BB positions. For 6-max the first two positions are EP and MP, so each position at a 6-max table has a separate label. For more than 6 players EP and MP positions are grouped - I don't have a complete list to hand, but hopefully that is enough to convince you to try the default positions?

My recommendation would be to install 9.0 and then when you first run PT4 change the port to 3290 (or whatever you used) and it will create a database using 9.0.
The Setup Assistant will offer to convert your PT3 database(s) for you.

[mager]

OK if I will decide to keep version 9 I will use the method you described. If I want version 9 only, is my option the way to do things?
Does it have any downsides to have both installed? My computer isn't the newest but not a bad one either(E8400 processor with 4GM ram).

I play 6-max and as you probably know, position is super important.
How can I try the new default positions when I don't understand how they work? Can you explain a bit more about it? I didn't understand your explanation.
When using EP, MP, LP groups - here is how I think things should look like:
http://crushthegame.com/wp-content/uplo ... ionPic.png
(If you still use this groups, because you also said you use specific positions now)

Can I make it happen? Of course I don't want to mess with it too much so I won't be able to use the "new system". You new system will allow COvBTN stats and other specific stats which I would like to have and could not create in PT3.

[kraada]

The only downsides would be that if you keep the old PostgreSQL version installed it will take up space on your hard drive still (and if it's running, it would use a small amount of RAM I suppose). What you could do is install 9.0 alongside, use it for a while and if you're happy then remove the old version - that way if you want to switch back it's still there but once you're certain that you're good you can jettison it.

Regarding position, we certainly agree position is super important. For 6-max in PT4 we have each individual position separated from all others. We have 6 positions in the PT4 schema: small blind, big blind, button, cutoff, middle position and early position. So for 6-max, that is all of the seats available. If you go from 6 handed to 5 handed there is no early position. At 4 handed there is only the SB, BB, BTN and CO and so on. Things are only grouped together for MP and EP at 7 handed and above.

[mager]

OK, now I understand how the positions in PT4 works.
BTN and CO wise, this is exactly what I wanted. The separation of MP/EP in 6max might be helpful in some cases, but might be too much in some other cases.

I would prefer not to mess with the default position but I need some stat(s) which group both EP and MP(in PT4 definitions) together.
So for example, EP+MP raise first in. Will I be able to easily create such a stat?

[kraada]

You could build this as a custom statistic if that's what you wanted to see, yes.

[mager]

You could build this as a custom statistic if that's what you wanted to see, yes.

Can you show me how do I build such a stat? EP+MP raise first in - based on PT4 definitions.

Also, I guess a lot of the guides and instructions on how to build stats is outdated with the new way PT4 look at positions. Did you explain in any thread(or article) how to properly create custom position based stat based on PT4 new positioning definitions?

Thanks.

[WhiteRider]

The way that custom stats are built is fundamentally the same in PT4, although simplified a little. If you can build stats in PT3 you should be able to get started at least in PT4. One thing to note is that we now don't split holdem and omaha, so any database fields which used "holdem_" will now start with "cash_".

If you're playing exclusively 6-max then "cash_hand_player_statistics.position > 1" will give you the first two positions (button=0, cutoff=1, hijack=2, UTG=3).

We do not yet have guides for PT4 (although we're working on them) as PT4 is still in the beta phase and is subject to change.

[mager]

I do not know how to build stat's in PT3. But it's time to learn some fundamental stats building.

Can you write the major changes made in the way you build custom stats in PT4? And/or the way PT4 look for stats(like the way it looks for position you just told me about)?
This way I could use the old guides and threads but with proper adjustments.

Also, if you can give me an examples of new stats that's already in PT4 which will give me proper example of these changes - it will make my learning curve much shorter.

Thanks.

[WhiteRider]

I don't have time to write out a list right now, sorry. Have a look at how the built-in stats (more particularly column expressions) are constructed in PT4, and maybe compare an equivalent stat to PT3.
The construction of expressions really is very similar, it's mostly just the change to the naming convention of database tables which I mentioned.

Check out the Tutorial: Custom Reports and Statistics for general information on constructing expressions, and use the "insert" link to help you find the relevant database tables.

The general change is much the same as it is for the position table:
holdem_hand_player_statistics.position (in PT3)
..becomes:
cash_hand_player_statistics.position (in PT4)

If you're stuck on something specific, or you have a specific example you'd like to get started on, please feel free to ask.