Villain huds vs Hero huds

Let us know what features not currently in the PT4 should be added.

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Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby Smoky » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:36 pm

Here is a topic that I come back to every 2 or 3 years. It has to do with the Hero being treated differently in cash games as opposed to tourney games.

Once again I am confounded by the fact that Hero hud stats are only allowed for the session or (if reset) for the table, but villains can be switched back and forth between lifetime or session.

I know the pat answer is that in tourneys the hero rarely encounters the same villain so the villain’s image of the hero is primarily the current one.

On the surface there is a lot of truth to that.

BUT …

There are three important reasons the programmers should dig deeper.

First, and the clearest example, are the SNG tourneys. These are very similar to cash tables regarding the repetitive nature of villains and heroes. Over and over again the same players go to battle with each other. It is perplexing that villains (if they have tracking software) can view my lifetime hero stats, but I cannot view the same stats of myself that my villains are viewing. THIS REALLY NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED!

Another problem I struggle with is that often I would like to compare my lifetime stats with another player’s lifetime stats during the course of a game. Especially when I am up against a skillful player who has gotten the best of me repeated times. How enlightening this would be!

Finally it is simply not true that tourney players do not frequently do battle repeatedly. I often come up against tourney players, even in big tourneys numbering thousands of players at the onset, where I show hundreds of games on the hud for that player. I would like to occasional switch the hero to see the same self image they are viewing of me.

As the years roll on, I am becoming convinced it is programmer resistance and not the nature of tourneys that causes this resistance.

If it is a complicated programmer change I would be content to be able to switch both the villains and hero simultaneously and not independently. This is a minor inconvenience compared to being completely blocked out of my own lifetime image.

If the views were switched simultaneously I would estimate 75% of the time I would be paying attention to the villain lifetime stats, and about 25% of the time switching to see my own current table image. But really, I suspect if you took it this far, you could go ahead and allowed independent switching of hero stats versus villain stats.

In closing, I looked at one of my old threads about auto rating and the main objection years ago in the cash vs. SNG debate was not enough SNG players were complaining. Did it ever occur to you that maybe SNG players might have given up on your software or given up about this particular complaint? I do not have the time to go out and organize them for resistance. But I really think this is a serious defect in your software and shows a lack of understanding about the play of tourneys, even large ones.

Thanks once again for consideration of this problem.

Smoky
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Re: Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby kraada » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:53 pm

You do not know -- and you cannot know -- what data these players have on you. They may have a tracker, they may not. They may have gotten one halfway through their career. There's literally no way for you to know. All you know for certain is they're paying attention to how you've acted at this table.

If you want to view your lifetime stats you can do that easily within PT4's replayer. Once you have played enough (and it certainly sounds like you have) your lifetime stats will simply not change during one tournament -- the samples aren't large enough to shift any numbers overall -- so if you review these numbers during your session reviews you can be confident they won't have changed by the next session you play.
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Re: Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby Smoky » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:16 pm

Well all this is true.

But I am talking about convenience of an immediate switch during game. There is quite an array of stats to keep track of, and it can be difficult from memory to zero in on just what stat is significant at a particular moment in real time. Something you could might accommodate if my request was seriously considered.

It also begs the question why certain things are allowed for cash play and summarily dismissed with pat answers for the tournament (including SNG) players. I think there is a subtle cash player bias in Poker Tracker.

Do not get me wrong. I love your software and it has so much power it will take me many more years to master it. I play both cash and tourney poker but over many years I have been irritated by two obstacles. One is the way the US government gets in the way of legitimate poker play like it was sinful or unhealthy (as opposed to investing which is a far more dangerous and unpredictable way of accumulating cash). You of course cannot do anything about that.

The other irritant you have complete control over. This is why every couple of years I test the waters on this subject and see if you have the energy to get past your own opinion and consider an alternative opinion about the usefulness of this request.
Other than this subject, keep up the really great work you all do on this software. I will be quiet about this for another couple of years lol.

Smoky
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Re: Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby kraada » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:23 pm

You can't show lifetime cash game stats for hero either, this isn't a tournament vs cash game thing.

You can also keep a replayer open with your lifetime stats if you so desire.
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Re: Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby Smoky » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:43 am

"You can also keep a replayer open with your lifetime stats if you so desire."

Ahhh Occam's Razor at work! This is a simple but seemingly effective solution that waqs right under my nose. I assume I can bring this up while I am playing a game in easy to read format?

The reason I was comparing cash with tournament is that I have also asked occasionally in the past for auto rating. I neglected to bring that up this time.

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Re: Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby kraada » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:27 am

The HUD in the replayer looks identically to the HUD in live play, so as long as you find your HUD easy to navigate, then yes I'd say it's easy to read :)
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Re: Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby nacekk » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:56 am

i would really like an option where my HUD would be showing my stats as the villan sees me in his HUD or does that alerady exist?
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Re: Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby kraada » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:05 am

That does not exist, and I would caution you against using it. Players do not all have trackers, and even if they did they might well have gotten them after you started playing with them.
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Re: Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby dsavereide » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:04 pm

We understand the caveats, but let us make the choice.

There are some players that we play over and over again and switching back and forth between session and life time stats, the same way we can switch the villain, can be valuable in some circumstances. Sure they don't have every hand we've ever played, but because those stats are much more accurate, they don't need to be precisely the same. The life time stats are probably much closer to what the villain sees than what a single session shows.
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Re: Villain huds vs Hero huds

Postby preparac » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:04 am

Is it technically possible to create a stat, that indicates how villain would see my tendencies, if he had the same common hands in his database as I do have?
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