Tournament Average Pot Size

Discuss how to create custom stats, reports and HUD profiles and share your creations.

Moderators: WhiteRider, kraada, Flag_Hippo, morny, Moderators

Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Astron8 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:13 pm

I would like a custom stat which I can use in 'My Reports" for tournaments. I want to know the average winning pot size, in BB.
Steve
Astron8
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Flag_Hippo » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:37 pm

I've created that for you here:
Attachments
Average Pot BB.zip
(465 Bytes) Downloaded 82 times
Flag_Hippo
Moderator
 
Posts: 14441
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:50 am

Re: Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Astron8 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:02 pm

Thanks for your effort, but I can't import it. It says that it was created in a newer version of PT4. Mine is 4.14.18. I am reluctant to update versions, usually, because I have a huge database and it can take a very long time. Advice?
Steve
Astron8
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Flag_Hippo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:35 pm

You'll need to update your PokerTracker 4 to import that statistic and it's best to keep your PokerTracker up to date due to regular poker site updates, bug fixes and new features. Not every release requires a database update although there is one required when upgrading to PokerTracker v4.15 but this isn't a particularly large/instensive update but if you are not sure then you can run it when you're not going to be using PokerTracker 4 for awhile. If you don't want to do that you can create this column and then divide it by cnt_hands to create the stat:

Code: Select all
sum(tourney_hand_summary.amt_pot / tourney_blinds.amt_bb)
Flag_Hippo
Moderator
 
Posts: 14441
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:50 am

Re: Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Astron8 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:02 pm

Thanks, this works. However, the resultant average pot size is much higher than I would expect. (41.5 BB at the 10/20 tourney level-1.) I suspect that this formula is double-counting (or worse). It seems to be counting a pot for everyone dealt in. For my database, there are 4309 hands at the 10/20 level with 685 players, 6.29 players per hand. Should I divide the 51.5 by 6.29? This give an average pot size of 6.61 BBs, which is a more reasonable number. Or perhaps there is something else I should do. One way would be to sum a pot only for the winning player, divided by the number of hands won. (Chops?)
Steve
Astron8
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Flag_Hippo » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:17 am

Astron8 wrote:It seems to be counting a pot for everyone dealt in.

Are you using this stat in an 'All Players Report'? If so you will not get the correct value there.
Astron8 wrote:One way would be to sum a pot only for the winning player, divided by the number of hands won.

This is exactly what the stat counts so make yourself the active player in a 'Player Report' and the value for this will be the average pot size in BBs regardless of who actually won the hand.
Flag_Hippo
Moderator
 
Posts: 14441
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:50 am

Re: Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Astron8 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:26 pm

I went to player report for my own screen name and looked at individual hands and their pot sizes for Tourney1. When I take an average of the final pot sizes, this agrees with my Average Pot value for Tourney1. (The number was about 40 bb per pot, larger than I expected.) So I can trust the summary line for all my tournaments (about 41 bb/pot).

When I go back to MyReports for all players, the Avg Pot stat form my screen name agrees with the one from the Statistics tab. So I think that the Avg Pot stat on the All Players screen is correct. (So your first comment seems to be incorrect; the stat seems valid for "all Players report".)

FYI. I am writing a book on tournament poker. In order to mathematically determine reasonable preflop ranges, I need to know certain stats, such as Average PFR%, Average PFR size and average final pot size. The AFPS was the last one to figure out. Now I can analyze.

Regards,

Steve Selbrede
Astron8
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Flag_Hippo » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:11 pm

Astron8 wrote:When I go back to MyReports for all players, the Avg Pot stat form my screen name agrees with the one from the Statistics tab. So I think that the Avg Pot stat on the All Players screen is correct. (So your first comment seems to be incorrect; the stat seems valid for "all Players report".)

What I told you was correct but if you are looking specifically at a line with your screenname on an 'All Players Report' then that is the same thing as the data you would see in a 'Player Report' for the same name however the summary line at the bottom will not be calculated in the same way when you have other players mixed in (although if you have a large sample then I'd imagine that the two numbers would be close together). Here is an example of a 'Player Report' with a 3 player SNG that has 6 hands and an average pot size of 14.5BB (both the player line and the summary line have the same value):

player_bb.png

Here is an example of an 'All Players Report' with the same 3 player SNG:

all_players_bb.png

Here the summary line has an incorrect value (16.07) because it will be getting calculated on 14 hands (more hands than are actually in the tournament) as follows:

(2*25.5) + (6*14.5) + (6*14.5) / 14 = 16.07.
Flag_Hippo
Moderator
 
Posts: 14441
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:50 am

Re: Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Astron8 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:57 pm

This is why I was initially suspicious of that summary value.

For my purposes, I will always have a large number of players and hands in my summary report. For my test sample, I have about 4300 hands from 685 players. When I do this for real, the database will be much larger. If the summary value is accurate to withing a few percent, it's probably good enough, but I would prefer a true value.

It seems we need some new columns:
C1 = sum (amount of the winning pot when the player won the hand).
C2 = the number of winning pots.

Then the stat would be Ave Winning Pot = C1/C2. It seems that the summary line would then be accurate.

Is this correct, and can these columns be created?

Steve
Astron8
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: Tournament Average Pot Size

Postby Flag_Hippo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:54 am

This doesn't require new columns. If all of the hands are personal hands that you have played all you need is the value for this stat in a 'Player Report' or on your own line in an 'All Players Report'. If you have non-personal hands in your database then just add a simple filter in an 'All Players Report' for being in the Big Blind so you only see each hand from that perspective and then the summary total will get calculated correctly.
Flag_Hippo
Moderator
 
Posts: 14441
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:50 am

Next

Return to Custom Stats, Reports and HUD Profiles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests

cron