First Impression

Questions and discussion about PokerTracker 4 for Windows

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Re: First Impression

Postby StevenM » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:43 pm

Erlebnis wrote:- It made my computer suuuuper slow and laggy. (sic) (btw, clicking on "Global Player Statistics" actually froze the whole thing up and it stopped responding; I had to bring task manager and close it that way)


Global Player Statistics report can be a slow process, especially if you have a massive database. Its a complex formula to render this graph, we are continuing to improve performance but it can never be a speedy process. With that said you shouldn't have to force quit, if you can reproduce this problem and send us the logs, that will help.

Erlebnis wrote:- I love the visuals BUT they look pretty bad in my laptop 15' screen. Some stuff, like editing the HUD, get unfriendly because everything is a bit bulky. But even in the main screen; usually the text and buttons are so big it looks a bit clumsy overall with lots of sliding bars. I'd prefer to have smaller font and mostly smaller buttons (*especially* smaller dropdown lists) for a slimmer look overall - especially in lower resolutions (I have 1366/768 now and it looks really cramped for my tastes). Somewhat in that sense I liked PT3 much better.


A common negative feedback we got on PT3 was the size of the fonts used and how small everything appeared to be on larger screens. We would often get requests to make the interface "bigger". Of course we know that we will never please everybody, but the PT4 interface is a compromise to help meet the needs of the widest audience possible. All of our preview videos were shot at a much smaller screen resolution than you are using on your laptop, PT4 can operate great at 960x540. i dont think this is possible with any of our real competitors, PT is unique in that manner. If you can give some specific feedback as to what you would advise to be changed, we are always willing to listen!



Erlebnis wrote:- I love the HUD editor too. In fact, I think it's exactly what a HUD editor should be, with the drag and drops and instant preview. Big score there! I just thought a couple of things could be more user friendly - maybe like having tooltips over the buttons or so.


It will be much easier to use once the documentations and videos are complete, but you sparked my interest - can you give some examples of tool tips you are looking for?

Erlebnis wrote:Under HUD options, I'd have liked to see a limitation on time, not only # of hands (on top of "stats from last x hands" I'd like to see "stats from last x months" as well).


We are looking into this. There is a good argument for time based filtering, and a slightly better argument for hand based filtering. Perhaps someday we will have both.

Erlebnis wrote:- I couldn't find where to view the graphs in full screen.


Click Graphs, then select the Personal Graph on the left hand drop down menu. If you are discussing the Overview Report graphs, these can be exported to your desktop but we do not expand these to full screen - that is what the Graphs page is for.

Keep up the great feedback, thanks!
StevenM
 
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Re: First Impression

Postby petitpoisson » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:04 pm

WaaaaaOOOwwww really fast ... easy to work with it (only chearch where are the fonctionnality then it's easy ) ,

re-player : nice ,the hud come faster than pt3 , more option in ....

HUD : i just make a short review of the posibility , the stats , etc .......ok .... not tested in play may bee tomorow .

no problem to installl ,to import , .....all works fine .... what else !!!!

great job for an alpha test ...
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Re: First Impression

Postby StevenM » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:19 pm

petitpoisson wrote:
great job for an alpha test ...


This is not an alpha, its a pre-release beta. We worked hard to knock out as many of the bugs as we could before the beta launched, the Beta Preview allows us to further refine the release to make the experience as smooth as possible for users when the full Public Beta launches. Thanks for the good words, we are really proud to know so many of you are happy with how PT4 has turned out so far!
StevenM
 
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Re: First Impression

Postby PJs Ronin » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:20 pm

kraada wrote:PJs, your post made my morning :)


Yeah, well that doesn't mean our underwear is gonna start doing the tango in a washing machine. :lol:

My congrats were/are sincere. I've been critical of the PT4 release process, but never critical of the support team or the developers capability. I have no doubt that I will not get everything I want from PT4, I just hope that I have made a sufficient ass of myself for the developers to occasionally think "hmmm, it might be possible to do that".

Once again, congrats to all at PokerTracker... I'm off to tear your product apart (nicely, of course).

Ronin
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Re: First Impression

Postby StevenM » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:41 pm

PJs Ronin wrote: I just hope that I have made a sufficient ass of myself for the developers to occasionally think "hmmm, it might be possible to do that".


Of course we respond best when the person who is asking for a request does so without making an ass of themselves, but we still listen nonetheless - EVERYONE's feedback is importent!

PJs Ronin wrote:Once again, congrats to all at PokerTracker... I'm off to tear your product apart (nicely, of course).


Please do, we want that! Give us good constructive criticism, rip our hard work apart and let us know how you feel... that is the goal of the Beta Preview! But lets keep it constructive, OK Mr underpants/tango/washermachine? :?

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:
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Re: First Impression

Postby Erlebnis » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:52 am

StevenM wrote:Global Player Statistics report can be a slow process, especially if you have a massive database. Its a complex formula to render this graph, we are continuing to improve performance but it can never be a speedy process. With that said you shouldn't have to force quit, if you can reproduce this problem and send us the logs, that will help.


Nah, it's far com a massive database. But yeah, yesterday I tried it and (after a loooong time) it worked fine.

StevenM wrote:A common negative feedback we got on PT3 was the size of the fonts used and how small everything appeared to be on larger screens. We would often get requests to make the interface "bigger". Of course we know that we will never please everybody, but the PT4 interface is a compromise to help meet the needs of the widest audience possible. All of our preview videos were shot at a much smaller screen resolution than you are using on your laptop, PT4 can operate great at 960x540. i dont think this is possible with any of our real competitors, PT is unique in that manner. If you can give some specific feedback as to what you would advise to be changed, we are always willing to listen!


I kept thinking about this one for the last days. One think sparks my attention: the biggest problem is whenever the hands are listed. The colums are just waaaay too wide, and the font too big. What happens is I only have a few (not useful) information on the screen (like site, hand #, date and stake) and have a massive slider do actually access the important data. I know I can alter the order and just configure that, but all in all I just think it's not enough data been shown in the screen. I at least would like it to be fully visuable and use the lateral sliding the least possible.

Some columns draw my attention, like the "pot (BB)" one that is really wide for just a small number in it. But they're mostly like that; some titles are too long too ("All-in Adj BB/100" for only a small number in colum; better would be something like EVWR with a tooltip not to take loads of screen space for a column that contains one or two digit numbers).

That said, I think all columns should be ajusted to be as thin as possible without cropping the text. I've been doing that and it helps, but it's quite of a boring task to go report by report narrowing the columns one by one.

On top of that: maybe it would be great to have the ability to zoom this window? You know, the bottom right one with the hands listed. Then whoever want big fonts with 5 columns shown would have that, but one would have the ability to zoom out (just like a word or excell document) and have smaller fonts but a better overall view of the data. That would be ace.

Another thing were the cards. I'm really into traditional decks so I picked the traditional 4 colour one - which I would still like to use and I think it looks gorgeous in the hand replayer. However, the tiny version of the cards, that go both in the reports and in the hand history viewer from the HUD, is just huge.

I know this is just a deck issue though, but it reflects the idea behind it: I have both PT3 and PT4 open now and I'm comparing both. First, the tiny cards you had in PT3's reports were (imo) just perfect; tiny and fully funcional. But that's just the minor part of it: I can't stress how much I preferred the "tidier" PT3's display of information, in which with one eye span you could have access to all the data. Now in PT4 everything is bigger, the cards are huge, the fonts are bigger, the columns are waay to wide, even the space between rows is huge; as a result, I can't easily access data anymore but have to keep navigating via slide bars all the time - BOTH vertical and horizontal.

In PT3 I could look a report and skim very quickly over all stats and get a deviance at a glance. Now in PT4 it seems that I need to know what I'm looking for, since there is no way to have them all on screen. It means I have to know I want to look for cbet flop in limped pots, slide all my way there, and then look at the stat; now I want to know how's it affecting BB/100 on limped pots, there I have to go again for the slider to find the winrate and... you get my point. What I did in 10 seconds in PT3 is either taking me 1 minute in PT4 or is not even doable (some correlation between data you can only really grasp if you actually look at it all at once, which I can't do now).

I understand different people have different tastes. But three things about it:

- you should try to go for PT4's apperance feedback to compare it to PT3. The fact that people said they didn't like this ir that in PT3 doesn't mean they will actually like PT4 now (if you know what I mean). To be honest, PT3's slim lean display of info was one thing I loved and that put it way above HM.

- what it seems to me it's not just a matter of taste. At least for me now, it's not the case that I'm having less of an aestethic experience; actually, functionality is somewhat compromised if I can't easlily glance at data.

- ace solution would be zoom ability. Just hold ctrl and mousewheel like Word or Excell. Then we could zoom out and glance it all, or zoom in and have two columns of info shown at a time with huge fonts and cards (for whatever reason people would want that).

(I much preffered the slimer tabs in PT3 over the big bulky buttons to navigate in PT4; but that is, I concede, an aestethic experience and I might just get over with time. Maybe just like forgeting an old lover or something). By the way, I love the filtering system on the left on PT4. But it's a bit big too (like the rest), as it's taking out almost 1/5 of my screen space. That left column was so, so slim in PT3. I know I can colapse it but it's a bit annoying too to keep collapsing and bringing it back all the time to go over different reports; if I have to do that it kind of ruins the whole idea of having them available in the first place.

StevenM wrote:It will be much easier to use once the documentations and videos are complete, but you sparked my interest - can you give some examples of tool tips you are looking for?


To be honest, no. I thought and thought about this and got no conclusion of why I didn't think the editor's layout (not it's funcionality obv.) was not very user friendly. Two things come quickly to my mind right now though:

- why to you have both a list of "group items" and then the whole drag and drop part? It seems to me the presence of a very crammed window there (the "group items" one) is just wasting space and confusing things. If I want to edit an item, I can just click on it on the drag/drop screen.

- Especifically about the tooltips, I was a bit confused at first on what difference would it make to creat a "popup group" or a "positional popup". And I think someone new to the software and/or not so familiar with HUD editing could be confused by "table groups / popup groups / positional groups" so there could be a tooltip when you hover mouse over those saying what each one is there for (table groups are the one being displayed all the time; popup groups are the ones that come up only when you click the HUD, something on those lines). It was not my case, I was only confused between popup/positional, but I can see people with a question mark in their heads there. But of course and then again, once you have documentation and/or video it's pretty simple and straightforward.
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Re: First Impression

Postby kraada » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:16 am

Erlebnis wrote:why to you have both a list of "group items" and then the whole drag and drop part? It seems to me the presence of a very crammed window there (the "group items" one) is just wasting space and confusing things. If I want to edit an item, I can just click on it on the drag/drop screen.


One useful thing you can do with the list is quickly highlight multiple objects using the shift key. That functionality isn't yet available in the preview area.
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