Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than Auto

Let us know what features not currently in the PT4 should be added.

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Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than Auto

Postby TrustySam » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:40 am

I saw what somebody wrote about them liking the auto-lock feature because it prevents their HUD stats from accidentally getting moved around when they (right-)click.

Would it be possible to make this feature one that we can each choose to set or not? Since HUD stats are constantly changing form, and sometimes there's things we might want to see, I think there's some of us who prefer never to have it on at all, and so when it's automatic we're forced to have to turn it off every time we open up a new table.

I noticed somebody begging for this option to be made customizable - I think that's a testament to the degree to which some of us despise this feature. Here's the link with the 'beggar', along with some other people who have had to ask about the lock feature:
https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/vie ... 59&t=37792
https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/vie ... 59&t=38402
https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/vie ... 59&t=38343
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Re: Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than A

Postby mrjorisa » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:19 am

+1 please. it's very annoying to have to manually unlock the HUD everytime u want to move it especially when your tables are constantly being resized according to how many tables you play and the HUD ends up blocking stuff.
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Re: Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than A

Postby kraada » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:04 am

One thing you both might not be aware of: if you hold down ctrl and click and drag that moves the groups even when they are locked. That might make things a little easier for you both.
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Re: Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than A

Postby TrustySam » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:17 pm

Hi Kraada ... thanks for the prompt response!

So ... okay, like I included three links to posts where WhiteRider responded to peoples' inquiries about the auto-lock feature with the following:

"You can always move HUD stats with control-drag, even when the HUD is "locked"."
"You can either hold the control key down while you drag, or from the PT-icon choose Unlock and then drag normally."
"You can either hold the control key down while you drag, or select "Unlock" from the PT-icon menu and drag normally ..."


So now this gets a little awkward, because your response to my request was to think that maybe I wasn't aware that if you hold down ctrl and click and drag that moves the groups even when they are locked.

You also read the thread where I mentioned that I read all 18 pages of this subsection to avoid duplication of requests, so you should have had some indication that I'm thorough.

So for you to think that maybe I wouldn't have known about the control drag feature ... like, okay so you're one of the developers of PT4, eh? And I know what it's like to work hard and be passionate about something, and then have to open yourself up to feedback - it can be tremendously hard to hear what others have to say, like it can feel very personal?

I think this is important though in that I really do think making the lock/unlock feature optional rather than automatic would make PT4 better. Because so far the feedback for this feature has been for 4 to ask for it be changed, with 3 of us calling it outright "annoying" (KuPoB_K, PartyAnimal, mrjorisa, trustysam - me), and only one person saying said they like it (kydechuk01).

Like if it's optional, then everybody winds up happy. If it remains automatic, some people are happy and the rest of us will be annoyed.

So while the lock feature appears to be a great idea and a great addition for those who were asking for it, by making it optional wouldn't that make it even greater and more appealing?

Thanks so much for considering our input - it's much appreciated!
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Re: Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than A

Postby StevenM » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:39 pm

TrustySam wrote:
Like if it's optional, then everybody winds up happy. If it remains automatic, some people are happy and the rest of us will be annoyed.


With all due respect, we politely disagree with you. We do not intend to make an unlocked profile an optional choice, we are positive that the control key modifier is the perfect middle ground that can address all user's needs.

The PokerTracker development and interface design teams make every design decision within the application knowing that we are going to create a feature that appeals to the majority of users, but we also except that there will always be a minority that dislikes the feature. Unlocked HUDs are a major source of customer support complaints, we have years of experience with helping PokerTracker users, there are far more complaints from users who accidentally unlock their HUD and then proceed to mess up their on-table HUD groups than from users who have locked HUDs and consider using a control key (or a right click in PT3) an inconvenience. PokerTracker should "just work", we strive to avoid options that would create in-game confusion, the last thing someone needs during a 200BB all-in call decision is to have their on tabel HUD groups accidentally slip due to a a misplaced mouse, we will not allow PokerTracker 4 to be the source of stress or errors in-game hence our decision on this matter is final.

With that said, we do appreciate your opinion and hope that you find enough in PT4 that you love, hopefully you will just view our locked HUD group policy as a minor inconvenience because PT4 is too good to ignore.

- TT
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Re: Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than A

Postby TrustySam » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:11 pm

Okay, so hi StevenM ... thanks again for another prompt response!

I do appreciate the fact that everybody at PT is passionate about the product and greatly wants it to be the best it can be. Peoples' enthusiasm and heart comes through, and that's a wonderful thing to see. So I can totally understand how personal the feedback must feel.

I'd just like to reiterate that I too am interested in seeing PT be the best it can be for everybody, because there's nothing better in life than feeling like everybody's happy because everything's working great.

So, in furtherance of that joint goal, I just wanted to touch on a couple of things you mentioned in your response to me. First up is the question of how to most accurately gauge customer sentiment:

StevenM wrote:Unlocked HUDs are a major source of customer support complaints, we have years of experience with helping PokerTracker users, there are far more complaints from users who accidentally unlock their HUD and then proceed to mess up their on-table HUD groups than from users who have locked HUDs and consider using a control key (or a right click in PT3) an inconvenience.


Okay, so PT has been around for years without a lock feature and throughout that time, you've been receiving requests from people who would like for there to be a lock.

In contrast, the lock feature has been in place for how many months now ... 4 months?

So given the time differential, wouldn't it stand to reason that you'd have naturally received more complaints about the lack of a lock in years, than you would have about a lock that's only been in place for 4 months?

This is important because you also included an example of why one person saw a need for a lock:

StevenM wrote:the last thing someone needs during a 200BB all-in call decision is to have their on tabel HUD groups accidentally slip due to a a misplaced mouse


Now I'm sure this person truly believes that it was a lack of a HUD that was responsible for their accidental all-in call/fold (whichever it was that they didn't want to do). But given that the call and fold button respond to left clicks, and the HUD in PT3 only responded to right clicks, I don't see how a reasonable person could wind up screwing up and making a wrong call due to an unintended move of a HUD.


So putting those two thoughts together, I guess what I'm trying to say is that it sounds like you've made the assumption that 4 years down the road, when you've got an equal basis on which to compare the number of complaints you received when there was no lock, that those will outnumber the number of complaints you're about to receive about the lock in the coming years. Except that the number of reasonable people in life tends to far exceed the number of screw-ups ... like whereas previously only careless people were complaining, now you're going to get normal users complaining because it's annoying to constantly have constantly unlock the 'screw-up-proofing'. Like I don't think you ought to need 4 years to find out what the evidence is already demonstrating - that dislikers-of-the-lock>>>>>>>dislikers-of-the-lack-of-lock (because normal-people>>>>>>>screw-ups).

And just some more general thoughts ... when everybody's smart, and everybody's hard-working, and everybody's ingenious, oftentimes it's the people who can take in the good and the bad and adapt who have the edge. Like with responsiveness, one never has to settle for hoping that people will find something to be "enough" and feel only minorly inconvenienced ... at least that's what I've found in life.

But like you said, you have the final decision, so it's your call, and I will obviously respect that. Thank you once again for your time, and this opportunity to share my thoughts.
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Re: Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than A

Postby Fox128 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:32 am

Srsly... personally I think the lock is a great feature and I can't see the downsides. Why is holding CTRL such an issue for you?

just saying.
Last edited by Fox128 on Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than A

Postby TrustySam » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:35 am

Can you elaborate on what makes it great?

I think it'd be important to hear more.

As well, if you'll note above, I mentioned that there were several of us if you noticed - there were repeat complaints. Not sure why you specifically as a user would be having a hard time putting yourselves in the shoes of others like the developers would be :/
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Re: Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than A

Postby TrustySam » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:43 am

Sorry, do you need more time to think of an answer? I saw you log out and then come back ... if you were being sincere, it shouldn't be a hard question to answer ...
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Re: Feature Request #3: Make HUD Lock Optional Rather Than A

Postby TrustySam » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:51 am

Well, I see you've logged off again ... I think the thoughtful thing to do would have been to let me know that you needed more time to think up a response and let me know when I could expect one.

Will check in again tomorrow fox to see if you've responded :/
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