Effective M filter?

[redicerap]

Hi, since all the tourneys have different antes it would make sense to filter stuff by effective M, but I don't see it in the filters. There is M under actual stack size, and Stack to pot ratio, which is the same as M preflop, as far as I understood. How can I filter hands for effective M (not including players who folded already of course).

[Flag_Hippo]

Hi, since all the tourneys have different antes it would make sense to filter stuff by effective M, but I don't see it in the filters.

You can filter for 'M' but there isn't a built in filter for 'Effective M'. Note that the value of the antes are part of the 'M' calculation so that is already accounted for.

How can I filter hands for effective M (not including players who folded already of course).

Players folding do not change your 'Effective M'. Your 'Effective M' is your 'M' adjusted for short handed tables as the blinds come around more quickly so if you are playing with less players as a tournament reaches its final stages then your 'Effective M' can be calculated as follows:

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Effective M = M * (players / 10)

If your tables have 9 seats then you can divide by 9 instead however if you want to calculate this during a tournament it's easier to do the math dividing by 10 even if the tables have 9 seats. Should you want to filter for 'Effective M' in PokerTracker 4 you can use the following expression filter in 'My Reports':

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(tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_before / tourney_blinds.amt_bb + tourney_blinds.amt_sb + (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_ante * tourney_hand_player_statistics.cnt_players)) * (tourney_hand_player_statistics.cnt_players / 10)

You can use this expression filter by clicking on the filters link and selecting 'Add New Expression Filters'.

[redicerap]

hi, thx for the reply. I'm actually looking for effective stack pot ratio. example:

pot preflop: 3bb
p1: 15bb (folded)
p2: 12bb (folded)
p3: 4bb (folded)
hero: 6bb
sb: 3bb (including posted sb)
bb: 2bb (including posted bb)

effective spr ignoring players who have folded = 1

what would be the code for that (regardless of amount of players at the table!)? and if possible a second code for effective spr excluding final tables?

[Flag_Hippo]

SPR is generally used as a flop metric when all preflop actions have been completed (Flop SPR = (Effective Stack / Pot After Preflop Action)) and trying to calculate it preflop is not the same and could change multiple times depending on the preflop actions that take place so in this scenario it is better to just use the effective stack. The effective stack for each player can be different and it is determined at their first action in the hand and it's the amount they could potentially lose in a pot as of their first action in the hand. Also there isn't a built-in filter for final tables and I'm not aware of a method which would exclude final tables from the results.

[redicerap]

Yes, but effective stack is bad for me for the simple reason that a 10bb effective stack supposed to play different on a 9max table with 12.5% antes compared to 6max tables with 25% antes. When looking at effective spr it literally is irrelevant what antes are in the game. It just matters how much is the effective spr between me and the players left to act, and how many players are left to act (when action is folded to me that is). So i want to build certain "universal" filters where maths apply regardles of the ante amount. The easiest example would be nash shoving ranges. When your preflop spr is x in a 6max hyper tourney, x in 9max normal tourney and x in a heads up tourney, the shoving range from the sb for example in all 3 cases is exactly the same, whereas the stack sizes in bb is different in all 3 cases. I recommend you consider implementing this in the filters. It would be nice for sure.

[Flag_Hippo]

If you want this for just the hands that are folded to you then you can filter to your effective SPR with this expression filter:

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tourney_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_open_opp and (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_p_effective_stack / tourney_blinds.amt_bb + tourney_blinds.amt_sb + (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_ante * tourney_hand_player_statistics.cnt_players)) between x and y

If you do not want to include the posted antes in the calculation you can use this:

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tourney_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_open_opp and (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_p_effective_stack / tourney_blinds.amt_bb + tourney_blinds.amt_sb) between x and y

[redicerap]

If you want this for just the hands that are folded to you then you can filter to your effective SPR with this expression filter:

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tourney_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_open_opp and (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_p_effective_stack / tourney_blinds.amt_bb + tourney_blinds.amt_sb + (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_ante * tourney_hand_player_statistics.cnt_players)) between x and y

If you do not want to include the posted antes in the calculation you can use this:

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tourney_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_open_opp and (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_p_effective_stack / tourney_blinds.amt_bb + tourney_blinds.amt_sb) between x and y

hey thx, the first code looks good. i try to tell you what i want to do exactly based on an example:

(Opportunity_to_open_the_pot
AND
Players_left_to_act=2 (button)
AND
Effective_SPR_between_me_and_players_left_to_act=5.2
AND
Range=22+ A2s+ A2o+ K2s+ K9o+ Q6s+ QTo+ J7s+ J9o+ T7s+ T9o 96s+ 86s+ 75s+ 65s 54s

OR

Opportunity_to_open_the_pot
AND
Players_left_to_act=3 (cutoff)
AND
Effective_SPR_between_me_and_players_left_to_act=5.2
AND
Range=22+ A2s+ A2o+ K6s+ KTo+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s 76s)


Now those are TWO rules. And i want to make up to 800 rules with an OR condition between. This is for a leakfinder shoving filter. I highly prefer to do this with coding, because i have all the info i need in excel and could do those 800 rules in no time.

Now the question is, is this possible, and what's the best place/section to do it in PT4?
if yes, can you turn the above pseudo into working code, so i can continue with the rest alone?
will it be possible to combine 800 rules like this or are there limitations?

I really appreciate your help on this!

[Flag_Hippo]

Opportunity_to_open_the_pot

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tourney_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_open_opp

Players_left_to_act=2 (button)

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tourney_hand_player_statistics.position = 0

Cutoff would be 2, hijack 3 e.t.c.

Effective_SPR_between_me_and_players_left_to_act=5.2

You can also use >= (Greater Than or Equal), <= (Less Than or Equal) or between x and y.

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(tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_p_effective_stack / tourney_blinds.amt_bb + tourney_blinds.amt_sb + (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_ante * tourney_hand_player_statistics.cnt_players)) = 5.2

The above combined with your holecards would give you this expression for the button:

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tourney_hand_player_statistics.position = 0 and tourney_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_open_opp and (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_p_effective_stack / tourney_blinds.amt_bb + tourney_blinds.amt_sb + (tourney_hand_player_statistics.amt_ante * tourney_hand_player_statistics.cnt_players)) = 5.2 and tourney_hand_player_statistics.id_holecard in (1,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,3,26,27,29,31,33,35,37,39,41,43,45,47,5,28,49,50,52,54,56,58,60,7,30,51,70,71,73,75,77,9,32,53,72,89,90,92,94,11,34,74,91,106,107,109,111,13,121,122,124,15,134,135,137,17,145,146,19,154,155,21,161,23,166,25,169)

See this post for the holecard lookup values.

will it be possible to combine 800 rules like this or are there limitations?

You can combine the rules with OR but I have not seen or tested an expression of such length myself.

[redicerap]

Hi, so I tried it out and unfortunately it's not possible to filter for such a long expression. What I wanted to do with effective M I actually got to work with effective BB in the normal filters. So it's def doable. But it's sad that you don't have an effective M in the filters. As I said filtering for BBs gives wrong results because of the ante differences. HM2 does have an effective M filter, but I guess they don't have all the other stuff I need for doing this. It would be really awesome if you could add effective M in the filters. It's the correct measure for filtering for mathematical spots regardless of the ante. just to show an example:

effective M = 4 for
- 6Max game with 25% antes = 12bb
- 9Max game with 12.5% antes = 10.5bb
- 2Maxgame with 0% antes = 6bb

in all 3 spots we should play exactly the same way from the small blind (in theory) based on what's in the pot.
long story short, I really think this filter should be there

[Flag_Hippo]

I gave you the formula and an expression filter for 'Effective M' in my first reply and Holdem Manager 2 uses the same formula for their built-in filter.