Btn 3Bet vs LP bet

[jhrobbin]

Hi folks,

Is there an existing stat (or can someone help me create one) that shows how often the player on the BTN 3-bets a late position (CO or Hijack) PF open raise in NLHE?

I am familiar with the "3Bet Preflop" stat and the Position property set to "Late (LP)". This is ofcourse very helpful but I'm interested in knowing the percentage the BTN 3Bets PF when it has been folded around to the CO or Hijack who opens for a raise.

FWIW, I'm playing full ring.

Looking forward to hearing if there is something out there or if it can be easily created.

Also, if you think this idea is flawed then please let me know why. Thanks.

[WhiteRider]

The problem here is that you don't know the position of the open raise, so this kind of stat isn't possible.

[jhrobbin]

you don't know the position of the open raise

Hi, thanks for the reply! I'm not sure I understand why it wouldn't be possible. I'm wondering if I didn't explain myself very well. Wouldn't be the first time. lol

I'm only interested in knowing the the BTN 3Bet against an open raise from the CO or Hijack player. ie: when the BTN 3Bet a LP PFR

If we know how often a Blind 3Bets against a Steal (ie. PFR from CO, BTN, or SB) then why can't we know how often the Btn 3Bets against the CO or Hijack?

Thanks again for any input.

[WhiteRider]

No, you were clear. The problem is that the position of the open-raiser isn't stored in the database.
You can only access the position of the last preflop raiser other than the active player. So if the cutoff was the only player to raise, you could use the database field: holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos, but if one of the blinds re-raises then that field will store the blind's position as the last raiser.

[jhrobbin]

ok. i follow you now. one last question...

some players are more apt to 3Bet lite from the BTN when the open PFR is coming from the CO or Hijack. any advice on how to use HUD to identify these players?

it seems to me that the 3Bet from LP stat gets skewed downward by all the times he doesn't 3Bet because the raise came from EP or MP. i'll look at the 3Bet from LP stat for a player that I think is 3Betting a lot from the BTN and I'm always a little surprised at how low the % is. like 3 - 5%.

sometimes I'll look at the BTN's reaise vs steal % and take that into account too. i figure that if he raises against steals a higher than avg % then he is likely 3Betting lite from the BTN vs what may be a steal of sorts from the CO or Hijack.

i'm mostly playing FR where i think people usually really tighten up against an EP (and many MP) PFR's. i guess same can be said for 6max but I can't say from experience.

any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

thanks from a longtime PT user!

[WhiteRider]

I think that your logic about how they respond to steals is a good idea, but I can't think of a more accurate way until we can find out the position of the open-raiser. I agree that this is something very useful and is something I've been pushing for, but I don't know if/when it will be added.